Capitulation update

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    • Dschibait wrote:

      we could say that this double troop production is only until you reach 75% of your max. troop value (you need a lower amount of these to capitulate)
      But this means that bigger players can still get around 25% troops back with that speed factor ... a smaller player wouldn't get such a good benefit from this, since he didn't lose big amount of troops.

      I would like to gave small players this benefits, but it is a way between providing this and require it.

      ps: i don't know you but i have still contact to blackmen... finally exp or playtime isn't important for me; if you can show a problem with numbers, and you only play this game for a week, i will still look at you. If you bring no calculations or un-real numbers up, which you dosn't see ingame and also no one else get in game, im not sure what this is pointing to.
      Thats why it could also be used for smaller players.
      I am just going to make up some numbers right now to show as an example.

      When a new player starts, he is very small and grows very slow. The problem is that he cannot catch up with bigger players. Now suggest smaller player get a troops/resource advantage:
      1) A player with between 0 and 10 million military score gets 5x troop production and 5x resources.
      2) A player with between 10 and 25 milion military score gets 4x troops and resources
      3) A player with between 25 and 50 million military score gets 3x troops and resources
      4) A player with between 50 and 100 million military score gets 2x resources and troops.
      5) After this it is just normal.
      This way smaller players grow faster and are able to catch up with the bigger ones a bit.
      And you can then ofcourse limit the 2x troops under capitulation to 75%.

      Once again, these numbers are just an example.
    • Dschibait wrote:

      we could say that this double troop production is only until you reach 75% of your max. troop value (you need a lower amount of these to capitulate)
      But this means that bigger players can still get around 25% troops back with that speed factor ... a smaller player wouldn't get such a good benefit from this, since he didn't lose big amount of troops.

      I would like to gave small players this benefits, but it is a way between providing this and require it.

      ps: i don't know you but i have still contact to blackmen... finally exp or playtime isn't important for me; if you can show a problem with numbers, and you only play this game for a week, i will still look at you. If you bring no calculations or un-real numbers up, which you dosn't see ingame and also no one else get in game, im not sure what this is pointing to.
      This 25% recovery sounds more reasonable and relates in a way to the healer. But this still does not solve the issue in comparison to players that lost a similar number of troops but cannot capitulate... maybe instead of an acceleration you could also consider an extended healing period or a decrease in gems needed for healing (up to the max 25%) ...

      Fact of the game remains anyway that one can loose troops and the experienced players know that can add up... In my opinion the damoria kingdom is not based on socialism ^^

      Thomas i suggest you check your skype then :)

      Some people are handy in excel and combine info in the game to make a complete picture:
      Files
      • production.pdf

        (182.43 kB, downloaded 15 times, last: )

      The post was edited 4 times, last by dYvorra ().

    • i only want to say that your suggestions here bring 1 extreme fact also to the baord.

      if a player who has a lower military amount can catch up bigger players - ok, this sounds good, but what happend after that ?
      A player with a small amount of troops like in your examples will get more and more troops wich can be all fight / we will call it suicide against bigger players. This is not a problem in first 100 battles, but at a point, the bigger player lose more and more troops at the end.
      Sure he could also use at a defined point the speed-up of troops, but the "good position" is destroyed - so why this player should keep playing?

      With your strategy you want to kill damoria at the end - anyone without troops could easily create them in a low level range - isn't attackable and could fight against bigger players without any reason.
      just only to troll them.

      only to say this - we already think about this since about a half of a year.
      in spaceinvasion we call this whole system "speed-up-system" look here:
      board.bitmeup.com/index.php/Thread/1147-Speed-Up-System-FAQ/

      So in SpaceInvasion this works quite well, because there you can escape flight anything. But here you could do it, but no one wants to do it.
      So finally - this golden idea from you here isnt it at all ... you have also missed many things ingame.
    • Dschibait wrote:

      i only want to say that your suggestions here bring 1 extreme fact also to the baord.

      if a player who has a lower military amount can catch up bigger players - ok, this sounds good, but what happend after that ?
      A player with a small amount of troops like in your examples will get more and more troops wich can be all fight / we will call it suicide against bigger players. This is not a problem in first 100 battles, but at a point, the bigger player lose more and more troops at the end.
      Sure he could also use at a defined point the speed-up of troops, but the "good position" is destroyed - so why this player should keep playing?

      With your strategy you want to kill damoria at the end - anyone without troops could easily create them in a low level range - isn't attackable and could fight against bigger players without any reason.
      just only to troll them.

      only to say this - we already think about this since about a half of a year.
      in spaceinvasion we call this whole system "speed-up-system" look here:
      board.bitmeup.com/index.php/Thread/1147-Speed-Up-System-FAQ/

      So in SpaceInvasion this works quite well, because there you can escape flight anything. But here you could do it, but no one wants to do it.
      So finally - this golden idea from you here isnt it at all ... you have also missed many things ingame.
      This can be avoided by only making the speed up system work for growing military score?
      For example: You are now at 60 million but decide to attack a bigger player. You lose 10 million military score. You would then not get the speed-up-system again until you reach the 60 million points you had before.
      Or this system could have some 'reduced' settings just like the capitulation has every time you drop points?
      It has to ensure that you can only benefit in the right way when growing. (Not helping you kill bigger players).
    • Normal production (level 100; 25 castles) in 1month is first number... with double speed is x2 number for the coming 5.5months is x 5.5number
      Lances 228mio x 2 = 556mio x 5.5 = 3.058mio
      Swords 114mio x2 = 228mio x 5.5 = 1.529mio
      Axes 152mio x 2 = 304mio x 5.5 = 1.672mio
      Archers 101.5mio x2 = 203mio x 5.5 = 1.116mio
      Templars 124mio x 2 = 248mio x 5.5 = 1.364mio
      Spies 182.5mio x2 = 365mio x 5.5 = 2.007mio
      Light cav 76mio x 2 = 152mio x 5.5 = 836mio
      Heavy Cav 57mio x 2 = 114mio x 5.5 = 637mio
      Rams 45mio x 2 = 90mio x 5.5 = 495mio
      Kats 39.5mio x 2 = 79mio x 5.5 = 434mio
      Total gains during capitulation: 13.148.000.000 troops of which half is capitulation bonus...
      When using the bonuspackages this number rises with 1.1*1.25 to 16.954.000.000

      SO i repeat... 'So far the fair balancing
      next time i should check your math before using this.
      The numbers are "almost" correct, im not sure why u using 5.5 if we have 6months ... but ok.
      But still, at the end your calculation already contains all premium features so the last part with "1.1*1.25" is wrong - anything contains already the 60% so this 13,2billion is the maximum amount what someone could get from this feature.
      Which means a plus of 6.6billion units.

      only to get a correct math here ;)
    • Dschibait wrote:

      i only want to say that your suggestions here bring 1 extreme fact also to the baord.

      if a player who has a lower military amount can catch up bigger players - ok, this sounds good, but what happend after that ?
      A player with a small amount of troops like in your examples will get more and more troops wich can be all fight / we will call it suicide against bigger players. This is not a problem in first 100 battles, but at a point, the bigger player lose more and more troops at the end.
      Sure he could also use at a defined point the speed-up of troops, but the "good position" is destroyed - so why this player should keep playing?

      With your strategy you want to kill damoria at the end - anyone without troops could easily create them in a low level range - isn't attackable and could fight against bigger players without any reason.
      just only to troll them.

      only to say this - we already think about this since about a half of a year.
      in spaceinvasion we call this whole system "speed-up-system" look here:
      board.bitmeup.com/index.php/Thread/1147-Speed-Up-System-FAQ/

      So in SpaceInvasion this works quite well, because there you can escape flight anything. But here you could do it, but no one wants to do it.
      So finally - this golden idea from you here isnt it at all ... you have also missed many things ingame.
      Hi Dschibait... Space Invasion is quite another game (i only played it for a short while) and yes there one can pick up all his resources in a space craft and fly around to avoid being atacked. In Damoria all is based on being able to build many troops as fast as possible...

      As you say yourself the goal is to give a player a chance to recuperate when certain conditions are met... this recuperation should be in line with the basics of the game... which also is the alliance system and that attacking or agression can lead to retaliation. Due to the introduction of the military ranking system you also have created a limitation of who larger players can attack. thus the situation that everyone attacks the same (only available with a green dot) player... this you have created yourself...
      When talking about recuperation in my opinion it should be avoided that this recuperation leads to excessive (even an atractive) situation to quickly build troops... hit and run and then again hide for 6 months... so the recuperation should be in balance with reality and the risk taken as inherent connected to the game (this can be achieve by extra healing facilities or a boost) but would never be of the size that one can regain in 6 months to the original level. As you and other say themselves... it should be a last resort and not a part of a strategy... The way you have organised it now is to make it atractive (for those who have 25 good producing castles) to seek for the best option to be able to capitulate and go in a 6 month vacation modus...
      So i think that it of course is good to give the last resort option, but then it should be just that and taking time to fully regain losses... (unless it is the goal that everyone seeks for the best option to fullfill the requirements and seek for this because there is the reward of regaining full force with bonuses; but then you change the dynamics of the whole game).

      Then also it should be avoided that abuse of the capitulation modus takes place: for example there are now 12bio points castles being transferred to other accounts within an aliance, which have a military strength < 100.000... if one plans correctly these small players can first loose 20% building points from their original small size... then take over 25 full prod castles... kill their little amount of troops and then go in capitulation in order to build an hughe amount of troops.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by dYvorra ().

    • Dschibait wrote:

      Normal production (level 100; 25 castles) in 1month is first number... with double speed is x2 number for the coming 5.5months is x 5.5number
      Lances 228mio x 2 = 556mio x 5.5 = 3.058mio
      Swords 114mio x2 = 228mio x 5.5 = 1.529mio
      Axes 152mio x 2 = 304mio x 5.5 = 1.672mio
      Archers 101.5mio x2 = 203mio x 5.5 = 1.116mio
      Templars 124mio x 2 = 248mio x 5.5 = 1.364mio
      Spies 182.5mio x2 = 365mio x 5.5 = 2.007mio
      Light cav 76mio x 2 = 152mio x 5.5 = 836mio
      Heavy Cav 57mio x 2 = 114mio x 5.5 = 637mio
      Rams 45mio x 2 = 90mio x 5.5 = 495mio
      Kats 39.5mio x 2 = 79mio x 5.5 = 434mio
      Total gains during capitulation: 13.148.000.000 troops of which half is capitulation bonus...
      When using the bonuspackages this number rises with 1.1*1.25 to 16.954.000.000

      SO i repeat... 'So far the fair balancing
      next time i should check your math before using this.The numbers are "almost" correct, im not sure why u using 5.5 if we have 6months ... but ok.
      But still, at the end your calculation already contains all premium features so the last part with "1.1*1.25" is wrong - anything contains already the 60% so this 13,2billion is the maximum amount what someone could get from this feature.
      Which means a plus of 6.6billion units.

      only to get a correct math here ;)
      ok :) the 5.5 was based on the remaining capitulation period for the example (who already is in this modus for 2 weeks) so with this correction we get with the correction of the bonuses 13.2bilion including the bonus of 6.6bilion in 182,5 days (which represents a half year).
      Still a big bonus... assuming that not everyone with this production capacity has to be considered a victim... since the cooperation between players also involves sending support troops in order to make an atacker loose troops (which is part of the strategy of the game and again a risk an atacker takes when atacking and using his battle settings)...
      The war was initiated because players from JG provoqued it by attacking a relative small aliance named Bockereijders (BR), and this aliance being a part of a larger group (unfortunately for JG also including bigger players)... Before the war started there was no protection for BR players by means of a military ranking, so when talking about victims they are to be found there...

      The post was edited 3 times, last by dYvorra ().

    • Dschibait wrote:

      I would like to gave small players this benefits, but it is a way between providing this and require it.
      Maybe, if that is the goal, it is better to put a 4th condition in the capitulation rules... related to the existing troop building capacity... also that should not be hard to program since this is based on the troop building database. Set a standard for a normal build up capacity (eg 25x lvl 71 production) and relate to that features which a capitulee is allowed to use.
      Those who have a sufficient capacity gain less benefits... for example only extended healing facility and those who are lower can obtain an accelerator up to a certain level of troops, with a max of the troops present before losses occurred.

      By using the extension of the healers you also prevent excessive troop increase which would occur with an unlimited double troop production speed.
      Given the fact that some players alredy play for > 10 years, even on different worlds and with the migration where able to combine accounts from different worlds, it is anyway unavoidable that there are hughe differences. Those who now still play have accepted this.

      For the veteran players who have been able to obtain (buy) 25 full production castles i remain to the fact that since they are veterans they are well aware of the ins and outs of the game and the risks involved, also knowing what can happen when you put your battle settings at 100% and accept to loose more troops then you can heal given the max capacity of the treasury (albeit atacker or defender)...


      PS
      I strongly believe that the emotions around this subject relate to nothing significant happening in the past 4 years, players being encouraged to spend money to improve things, and now once of a sudden changes made in an attempt to 'balance' and 'equalize'... making the money spent of less value ...

      The post was edited 4 times, last by dYvorra ().

    • I have said in the past (changes of reduction of loot and raw materials by demolition castle) that an active fighter is punished in this game. A fighter loses troops, resources per fight and after a period of war (won or lost), he continues to lag behind those who stay outside the war. A strange case for a war game that you are always better off staying away from action than participate in it.
      I am pleased that measures are being taken to ensure that fighters can recover faster.
      I also think it is good that these measures depend on presence in the game.
      :thumbsup:
    • Juflo wrote:

      I have said in the past (changes of reduction of loot and raw materials by demolition castle) that an active fighter is punished in this game. A fighter loses troops, resources per fight and after a period of war (won or lost), he continues to lag behind those who stay outside the war. A strange case for a war game that you are always better off staying away from action than participate in it.
      I am pleased that measures are being taken to ensure that fighters can recover faster.
      I also think it is good that these measures depend on presence in the game.
      :thumbsup:
      Ju(flo)dith, i think it is not really a war game but a 'build your kingdom' game... :)

      The recent changes are making things turn in the direction of a wargame, which has other dynamics. As demonstrated in the last few months one can loose many troops in a short period... changing the buildspeed of troops can increase the dynamics for sure, as long as it is an option for eveyone and not only for those who like to be agressor, by mistake loose more than they can afford and then hide in a cave for 6 months... But i am very happy witht the addition made yesterday which enables EVERY fighter who lost a significant number of troops to regain troops in an accelerated manner.

      So thx Dschibait for your quick response <3